Japan Boyz: Tomohisa & Takumi

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Japanese onsen and bathhouses: healthy, wet and gay?

Wondering if any of you have had any experience on trying the Japanese Onsen or hot springs?

     

* Originally, some of this discussion was posted on a Dudesnude discussion forum in August 2010

by occa 10 Aug 2010, 21:52

Guys, wondering if any of you have had any experience on trying the Japanese Onsen or hot water spring? any tips or hints on what should you do in there? i could google it but I wanted to know and hear the first hand experience from all of you who had tried it. I heard that for uncut guys it is a no no if you keep your cock head covered with the foreskin...is it true?. Well, would love to hear from you as I will visit japan next month and might have the chance to try one of the onsen or bath houses. . First time experience for me to be naked around other men. Can't wait.

Follow up: Ernie
10 Aug 2010, 22:23

I lived in Japan for several years and it was a real treat to go to the Onsens/Sento. There's a lot of etiquette to observe but the main one is to wash before you get into any bath. It doesn't have to be a thorough washing as you usually have a good scrub/shampoo after you soak anyway...but you never get into a bath without a bit of a 'token' wash. The main thing is NO soap anywhere near a bath. 
I found the Japanese a little peculiar when it came to foreskin - it's considered infantile to publicly 'display' your foreskin so most men keep them skinned back - I didn't have to worry about that!

I had Japanese friends who didn't care either way so don't fret about it.
I got so used to seeing knobs on display that a couple of times when other 'foreigners' were bathing, I got quite shocked to see long floppy skins!
Hope you enjoy it, it's great getting naked with other men and throwing water everywhere.


Follow up: jax2nola
10 Aug 2010, 22:57
Remember that Japan is still very much a closed society, not terribly tolerant of outsiders. At the mainstream onsens, you might not notice it much. There is a great one at Odaiba, a touristy island in Tokyo Bay, called Oedo Onsen that is made up to look like a Japanese 1800s village with huge indoor and outdoor bathing areas. At the gay baths (24 Kaikan in Tokyo was one we went to), you might feel a little ostracized. Also know that if you have tattoos you might not be welcome at all, as the Japanese associate tattoos with the yakuza or mobsters. Have fun!

Follow up: spunkhole

10 Aug 2010, 23:59
people take a small towel into the communal bathing area with them (leave your big towel outside in the changing area). most guys hold this over their cocks when walking around, though not always so careful to hide everything. a token effort is enough to be polite. this little towel is used to wash yourself and to wipe most of the moisture off before you leave. dry off in the cooler changing area. the baths are usually hotter than westerners are used to, so it takes a while to cool down a bit.

the onsen are great (so many to choose from), especially in remote areas and in winter when there's snow on the ground. the same etiquette applies here as in city bathhouses, which are also good for a visit. many now have saunas installed too,which gives a better opportunity for very discreet cruising.

Reply by sunbuns99

What the difference between an onsen, a public bath, and a gay sauna or gay bathhouse?

Let me remind you that there are several types of 'baths' in Japan.

There are 3 main types. The first two are for everyone - either for relaxation or healing as is the case of onsen, or for cleasing of the body, which is what 'sento' (or public bath) is for. The third are saunas (or health spas) while many are straight and just for relaxation or health self-treatment - a lot of these later ones are for sex -- some are for gay men.

-1. onsen 'hot spring' baths . There are both natural ones and man-made ones.
The owners pride themselves on the mineral content and temperature of their natural hot springs - so the man-made ones try to imitate those qualities.
These 'onsen' are normally (and almost always now) divided into male and female dressing rooms and the baths themselves are separate, but until only about 15-20 years ago, it was still possible to find conjugal ones (where men and women got into the same bath - after changing in separate room). I use to go to one like that at Ikuho on Mt. Haruna in Gunma Prefecture. Ikuho is one of the oldest commercially operated hotsprings resorts in Japan.

So you can travel to certain locations that are famous for their 'onsen' or you can sometimes find one in a major hotel or resort (man-made) - even in big cities. For example, there is an 'onsen' in the ritzy chic shopping district of Azabu Juban (not far from Roppogi).

One interesting variation is the 'rotenburo' - or open-air hot springs bath. In some onsen resorts (and even the man-made ones - like Odaiba mentioned above), part of the hot springs bath is in the open air (outdoors) - while usually divided by gender, that is not always the case so you'll need a towel handy to keep covered for modesty in mixed baths.

Noboribetsu in Hokkaido is a famous example, but there are some in most onsen resort locations (such as Hakone, about an hour by express train southeast of Tokyo).



One of my favorites was the free public open-air outdoor hot spring bath right on the beach at Shirahama, Mie (about an hour south of Osaka). It's really fun to be able to sit in warm water right next to the cool ocean water - or to take turns soaking in each. (P.S. I have no idea if it is still operating).

2) 'Sento' are public baths. There used to be one in every neighborhood but as times have changed and indoor plumbing virtually universal in Japan (except some places in the countryside), public bath (or sento) are pretty much few and far between.

Those that are still operating successfully have usually upgraded their facilities and offer onsen-like features like a dry sauna, and open air bathing or have installed mineral baths, which actually piped in artificially-made hot mineral water.

Yet, there are a few of the old-fashioned ma & pa 'sento' (Japanese public baths) still around. In these, you pay when you come into the dressing room, where an older man or woman sits atop a high seat that overlooks both the male and female dressing rooms. Don't worry - he or she has seen it all a million times - meaning your nudity is not going to shock them - albeit you may be shocked to have to undress in front of a withered old woman or man. The 'sento' that do still operate are usually frequented by the old-fashioned types who just enjoy the naked camaraderie (or 'skinship') of a good soak in a large hot tub, but more likely by those who must live in cheap or communal apartments that do still exist even in Tokyo.

 They are young men (or women) with low paying jobs who probably couldn't finish high school, older day-laborers, or one of the few foreign blue-collar workers who lives cheaply in order to send part of his earnings back to his family in his native country.
I can't tell you how many times I have enjoyed watching one of these young hunky workers peal back his foreskin for a good cleaning or wash his butt hole. Somehow it always seemed that they were just preoccupied with their mundane chore to notice the wide-eyed onlooker sitting opposite them, partly hiding his growing erection behind the low mirrored partition that separated us.

3) The saunas or health spa ('herusu') are the third type. Of these, there are 3 basic types: A. a genuine sauna for straight people; B. a gay bath house; and C. a straight sex club where men can pay for sexual favors - usually a soapy hand job from a female 'attendant'.
I don't know much about the A or C, but I've been to the gay bath houses in Tokyo and Osaka several times. The major ones in Tokyo are the 24 Kaikan (there are several, but the one in Shinjuku is probably the best). I found Hokuokan in Osaka to be even bigger and better, but maybe it only because it was new for me (I rarely get to visit Osaka).

Info about the gay district in Tokyo on my own Travel with Sunbuns (blog)
sunbuns.blogspot.com/2007/06...kyo.html

Popular gay spots in Tokyo:
utopia-asia.com/tokymasa.htm

Info about Tokyo's 24 Kaikan (gay bathhouse):
www.juno.dti.ne.jp/~kazuo24...glish.htm

Info about Hokuokan gay bathhouse / sauna in Osaka:
www.gayscout.com/queerlife...-and-Sauna

That's enough info for now.  P.S. Can you find me in one of the photos above?

Kelly (sunbuns99)

 

Dan Madigan compares gay Japan and gay Thailand

(2) Gay BKK and Gay Tokyo 
Dan Madigan  compares and contrasts his experiences on the gay scenes of Tokyo and Koriyama with Bangkok and Chiang Mai.


Fridae.com

by Dan Madigan

Sushi or green curry? Hairy daddies or cute

burnished boys? One a vibrant hi-tech society and the other a tropical haven, Japan and Thailand offer two completely different experiences for the gay traveler.

The congested but endlessly seductive city of Bangkok with an indisputably out, loud and proud gay scene may be the first place on anyone's list - the Babylon Sauna alone is worth the price of a return flight from anywhere in the world - but although Tokyo may seem rather more subdued in comparison, there is certainly no less going on. Those sexual samurai are just a little bit harder to find, that's all.  
As there is a distinct difference between the way the Japanese and Thai cultures regard homosexuality, the openness of their respective gay scenes also reflects attitudes to sex and pleasure in general. In Bangkok, gay culture permeates almost every level of society and is accepted as much as any aspect of Thailand's thriving sex industry. In Tokyo, the sex industry is no less extensive, but it's all behind closed doors, and thus it can seem like you're entering a secret world. This makes you feel rather illicit at times and is rather strange if you're used to more openness.

 One thing you can't complain about in Japan is the variety of bars catering to all sorts of different body types and tastes. It is easy to see Bangkok bars as formulaic in respect to this, and --dare I say it--tacky. But I had heard that Japan's wide variety of choice was really only available for the Japanese themselves, with foreigners often not welcome in some of the more specialized bars, and when you can walk into any bar in Bangkok and find a hot welcome, this is slightly disconcerting, not to mention racist.

Deciding to put this to the test, I nervously ventured up the stairs to Ku Su O, a bear karaoke bar in Shinjuku, and despite finding the broad-shouldered, bearded hunks a bit intimidating (until I heard them sing, anyway) I was made extremely welcome without knowing a word of Japanese. Conversely, another white guy and I were turned away from one of the Tokyo saunas, despite being noticeably less drunk than any of the locals who we watched stumble, as furtively as they could, through                    the hallowed doors. I guess it's just best to try and find out for yourself.

Of course, apart from the great disparity in prices

between Japan and Thailand, another problem with Tokyo is that it doesn't have any specifically gay hotels. Nothing like Bangkok's Malaysia Hotel anyway, where a large clean double room for a night costs less than two cups of coffee in the more fashionable parts of Tokyo.

While we're on the subject, the cheapest place I did find for coffee in Tokyo (apart from a few free cups the morning after), was the a place called Monsoon (http://members.xcom.com/barmonsoon)

 

But the plus side to business hotels in Tokyo is that once you have paid for your room you can do anything you like in it and no-one is going

to bother you. Your friend for the night is not going to have to leave his ID card at reception, for instance. I for one would also gladly forego the Malaysia's 24-hour room service for the excellent porn available in Japanese hotels --some hot Yakuza action is so much better background to an orgy than fuzzy MTV, don't you think?

Despite the recent crackdown on underage drinking, most would agree that Bangkok's gay nightlife is still second-to-none in Asia--the Silom area alone houses almost 50 gay establishments, compared to around 10 in Shinjuku - something else to bear in mind is that no one you meet in a bar in Tokyo is going to ask you to pay for sex.

There are specific places to go for that. You can also assume in Tokyo that your sex partner will know all about safe sex, something that most tend to be pretty blasé about in Thailand. Or worse. My traveling companion was convinced that I should be less rude to a certain few ladyboys unless I wanted to be stabbed with a syringe full of HIV-infected blood. Horrific scare stories aside, that's not to say that Tokyo doesn't have its fair share of bitches, it's just they're not looking to make any money from you so will generally stay out of your face.
The Telephone Bar (www.telephonepub.com) is one of the most popular on Bangkok's Silom Soi 4 and you'll meet some nastiest (and most fun) local queens. It's not so good for cruising as some of the clientele can be a bit pushy, but it is excellent for people-watching, with moderately priced drinks and good service. Opposite Telephone is Balcony (www.balconypub.com), which from our vantage point seemed just as packed with both local and foreign manmeat. The main attraction on Silom Soi 2, DJ Station, is always bursting at the seams so if you like sweaty spectaculars, this is the place for you. The Henry Club, opposite, is a pretty tame go-go bar full of spoilt, sullen youths, to be avoided at all costs.

The scene in Tokyo is centered in the garish district of Shinjuku, although garish in Japan is pretty monochrome by Thai standards. GB (B1F, Shinjuku Plaza Bldg., 2-12-3 Shinjuku Ni-chome. Tel: 03 3352-8972) is probably the most popular bar for foreigners and the Japanese men that like them. It's extremely small and completely dominated by a square bar that offers excellent cruising opportunities - perfect for arranging group sex sessions, in fact. The bar staff and clientele are extremely friendly and generally very drunk. 

Opposite is Dragon, a small but extremely busy dance club that caters to a mixed crowd, hosting theme parties and leather nights. On the weekend nights I visited it was just packed with bare-chested men, both foreign and Japanese, sweating profusely to English techno along with a scattering of fabulous drag queens. The prices seemed average, and the bar staff are both gorgeous and supremely honest. Slightly worse for wear, I twice handed over a 5,000 yen note thinking it was 500, which doesn't actually exist, and on both occasions it was returned along with a slightly concerned look. Now I've never been ripped off in Thailand myself, but we've all heard the stories.

Another bar in the area is Kinsmen, one of the few bars in Shinjuku that welcomes women (along with Dragon), and we met a whole contingent of fabulous Japanese dykes from Sydney. Regular prices, big butch bar master, mainstream music and a good vibe. Arty Farty is just along from GB (2-17-4 Shinjuku Ni-chome. Tel: 03 3356-5388) and by Tokyo standards is reasonably large. It's busy with the same kind of crowd as GB with women welcome on Sundays, and serves a full range of drinks and a limited food menu. Arty Farty is open daily from 2 p.m. and this is the one place you might actually get a cozy seat

Opening at 6 p.m., a bit earlier than other bars, Advocates (7th Tenka Building, 1F, 2-18-1 Shinjuku, http://www.f-impression.com/ advocates) is a tiny open-air bar and cafe on a corner in Naka Street, situated roughly between the two biggest gay bookstores. 

The crowd here, if you can call three full tables and enough people to fill two square meters a crowd, was a mix of butch queer Japanese and masculine foreigners. A fashion-conscious yet kind of unassuming lot, but the place does have the best vantage point to watch the cute men walking up and down the street.

 

And seeing as I've suggested one place to avoid in Bangkok, it's only fair I show the same consideration to Tokyo. According to its multitude of flyers, Ace (2-14-6 B1F Shinjuku-ku) hosts drag shows and dance parties with a huge variety of performers and DJs, but I haven't seen it listed in any of the English-language gay guides to Tokyo and has a discriminatory door policy against foreigners, as well as a strangely anal lesbian on the door the night we chanced in. Make your own mind up by all means, but don't say I didn't warn you.

Rural retreats - well, almost

If you're going to travel out of the capitals, Chiang-

Mai in Thailand is a good base, offering a relaxed scene as well as plenty of non-sexual activity. Japan offers very little to the gay traveler outside the major cities, but if you dig deep enough, you'll find that there is a strong sense of community that harks back to an older tradition that is alive and well in secluded pockets. The town of Koriyama in Fukushima prefecture is such a pocket.

While Chiang Mai is regarded as being able to provide a warmer welcome than its brasher southern rivals, and I found the locals extremely charming in a rough-hewn fashion, it was clear that the boys here were working for themselves, and I pretended not to notice that they seemed a lot younger even than the working boys in Bangkok.

I stayed at the Lotus Hotel, spitting distance from the Adam's Apple Go-Go bar, and it was pure delight. Not large, but clean, welcoming and surprisingly luxurious, like you are staying in the guest bedroom of a colonial mansion. All the reception and chamber staff go out of their way to help out, and the owner Mohammed is a darkly mysterious yet sociable character who exudes enough testosterone to floor a camel (you can e-mail him directly for info/reservations at mohamad@loxinfo.co.th)

The hotel has a bijou open-air bamboo hut bar

where you can have a drink before heading across the road. The Lotus can arrange for you to be picked up at the hotel for sightseeing trips, or you can, as I did, hire the hotel's 4-wheel drive and a big Thai driver for the day at very reasonable rates. That particular driver was also available for hire of an evening, so don't be afraid to ask at the front desk if you want the double-deal.

The Adam's Apple go-go bar, all part of the Lotus complex, is a stylish establishment with nightly

shows that emphasize fun rather than sleaze, and I found the boys gave us perhaps the best natured and warmest welcome that we got in Thailand. There are two saunas in Chiang Mai and we were advised by locals that the House of Male (e-mail: awaller@loxinfo.co.th) was the more popular of the two.

Built in the traditional northern Thai style, this is a classy joint, small but perfectly formed, like the staff, with a tiny gym leading onto an outdoor

swimming pool and open-air veranda area on the second floor where you can watch the poolside goings-on. As we swigged Elephant beer on the veranda, shivering in our robes, a middle-aged Japanese guy masturbated furiously across from us while two of the staff sat either side of him, flicking rather disinterestedly through glossy magazines. That kind of summed up Chiang Mai for me, really, and will remain in my mind for as long as I try to forget the cigarette burns all over the back and butt of one of the go-go boys.

Nasty Back in the Japanese countryside, you're not likely to spot many rainbow flags in the smaller cities, but if you get talking in the Tokyo

bars you'll soon realize that many Japanese patrons are just there for the weekend, and all will be willing to tell you about the gay goings-on in their area, and probably take you to bed you as well.

In Koriyama, much the same as most of Japan it seems, you can often find a handsome salaryman who'll get drunk enough to let you get him off in one of the myriad of straight expat-style bars, including one called DownTown (Elite1 bld, 2F, 1-6-15 Ekimae). 

Brazilian owner Alain will often grab a whistle and start really getting down at the head of a conga line to the strains of the Macarena, a veritable Mardi Gras in yellow trousers all by himself. It's rumored that he's also rather handy with the camcorder and baby oil to boot, upstairs after the bar has closed.


The best local gay place is Copain (Tel: 024 921-7456), a starkly decorated bar staffed by the lovely master Yamaguchi and another gorgeous, masculine hunk of Japanese manmeat. Very friendly, very reasonable (beers about 700 yen), and not a queen in sight - all suits, S/As and a particularly cuddly bear. 

Popstar is another karaoke joint that attracts an altogether younger crowd, owned by an old queen who likes to suck the fingers of the customers. I was informed that this was the best place to pick up, as most of the customers (a mixed crowd of trendy S/As, queens and the same suits from Copain) are scebbae (sleazy). True to form, after not a few hours of rather dreary Japanese love songs belted out by Koriyama's resident divas, shirts began to be removed in the small, confined bar and the next few hours were a blur of booze, nipple-biting, poppers and Japanese sweat.

The Best Ever 

While Japan is probably the last place most would think of for a gay sex tour, and Thailand is the first, each have their unique merits and both offer a bewildering array of sensual experiences, sexual and otherwise. But for me, for all the bawdy heat and willing boys of Bangkok and the straining sexual tension of Tokyo, it was my experience in the foothills of Mount Adatara where I said Sawasdee to my samurai that makes Japan come out on top.

I may already have been biased, as my best one in Thailand was a Japanese guy I met in Phuket, but I found God in that forest that night. 

He took the form of a ski-patrol warden from the nearby resort. His battle-hard body and unforgettable musk - he'd come straight from working the slopes rather than fighting for his Shogun warlord --mean for me it's Sawasdee Samurai and Sayonara Silom.